Thinking and awareness |
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This is a chat I had on the internet with a couple of guys about thinking and awarness, etc. In the transcript below the names are made up. I use the name Mark.
| Charles: | I have seen a video of google tech
talking about "thinking". |
| Mark: | ok |
| Charles: | they created a computer model
it worked as follows they had a big database of information with links between bits of information I mean between records |
| Mark: | yes |
| Charles: | the problem with memroy systems is always "lack of initiative to create its own thoughts"
so someone solved that they put noise into the database |
| Mark: | exactly |
| Charles: | changing at random link pointers |
| Mark: | who can distinguish between randomness and free will? :) |
| Charles: | exactly Mark
so they had to create a sort of arbitor program the arbitor program was a piece of software with a criterium to determine what new links were usefull and thus this new usefull links were added to the database this was a concept of thought now, the talker went even further speculating that our thoughts came from "noise" like thermal noise in our own organical memory structures as an explanation why thought pop up in humans like that as a part of creativity I thought this was a pretty interesting video |
| Mark: | yes, i am convinced that is part of the process, for example when a musician improvises music, and why not when thinking? |
| Charles: | right
so basically the thinking machine is quite simple except for the arbitor program, determening what is usefull for us the rest is straigtforward |
| Mark: | yes, the arbitor program is like the musical rules in my randomusic program, which tames the randomness to something useful so to say |
| Charles: | yes right |
| Mark: | well, this is already quite much in line with my own thinking already |
| Charles: | yep your programmed machines already do this
that's good |
| Mark: | if we can make the arbitor part more self learning then we have something interesting |
| Charles: | so basically one can make any kind of thinking or creativity machine with this model |
| Mark: | yes
even my verbie is more or less like that, as simple as he is |
| Charles: | so the database that is being changed constantly might be part of arbitor program
thus being self learning |
| Mark: | yes |
| Charles: | ..in a spiritual sense |
| Mark: | i actually do not think these things are so difficult as we have thought, these things have been so holy that people were relcutant to agree that it could be done |
| Charles: | we are making our own conscienness |
| Mark: | Charles, well, personally i do not think this creates consciousness, it creates thinking. |
| Charles: | I ment "mind" |
| Mark: | ok, i just dont think that anything or anyone is aware of the thinking |
| Joe: | is calculation - thinking? |
| Mark: | Joe, in a way yes, often a quite mechanical form of thinking |
| Charles: | calculation might be part of thinking |
| Joe: | then your calculator thinks |
| Mark: | Joe, yes
but i do not think anything is aware of that thinking |
| Charles: | hehe this is really philosophy |
| Mark: | :) |
| Joe: | but it has no mind indeed |
| Mark: | yes |
| Mark: | Joe, depends on what we mean by mind |
| Joe: | Mark, reaching your own decisions |
| Joe: | free will |
| Charles: | this is a subject of its own : "free will" |
| Mark: | i like to equate mind with thinking and emotional mechanics. Not exactly with awareness. |
| Joe: | mind can exist without emotional mechanics |
| Mark: | "emotional mechanics" :) i like that expression |
| Charles: | I agree with that; in many levels we are just following some subconscience impulses
so free will is most of the time function of those subconscience impulses or motivators |
| Mark: | yes
(but i do believe we have some kind of genuine free will. I have a spiritual view on life.) |
| Joe: | do dogs have free will? |
| Mark: | Joe, difficult to say |
| Joe: | it seems so react to environment and so |
| Charles: | well nothing is said about the subconscient motivators, maybe that can be seen as free will just we are not aware of |
| Mark: | Joe, potentially i think all living beings have free will |
| Joe: | even bacteria? |
| Mark: | if they are aware yes
but if they exhibit free will in that life form, i dont know. (i believe in reincarnation) |
| Joe: | ok |
| Charles: | Mark, do you believe there is some non material part that is common in all your lives ? |
| Mark: | Charles, yes, the real self |
| Charles: | ok |
| Joe: | i like imagine my self being some animal |
| Mark: | and i think that is where awareness is |
| Joe: | though i do not believe in it rationally, but deep in heart there is a sense |
| Charles: | how do you see "awareness" |
| Mark: | Charles, i think we might not be able to see awareness, other than conclude it from behaviours we see. But one awareness we can see or be directly aware of, and that is our own awareness. |
| Charles: | ok |
| Joe: | sounds meaningful |
| Charles: | so the real self is an "entity" that continues in all dimensions and lives without time, or in all times |
| Joe: | supernatural you mean? |
| Charles: | yes
if you define this as non observable I think it is an inevitable conclusion |
| Mark: | Charles, in a way yes, he always exists, can not stop to exist |
| Mark: | supernatural yes, in the sense we just talked about that we can not see other awarenesses. But it is probably a very natural thing, maybe super natural! :) |
| Joe: | lol |
| Charles: | haha, indeed, it must be natural, only because of our way of thinking , our culture, it doesn't have a place |
| Mark: | right, but there are cultures or have been cultures where it has a more natural place so to say |
| Charles: | yes |
| Joe: | so its relative |
| Charles: | and that's why we are here , to escape the methodologies a bit of our materialistic culture |
| Mark: | yes |
| Charles: | these thoughts can give a person peace of mind |
| Mark: | yes, that is true |
| Charles: | without removing critical thinking |
| Mark: | maybe because we added some critical thinking :) |
| Charles: | ...we escaped dogmatics |
| Joe: | or at least try to avoid |
| Mark: | i believe so, yes |
| Charles: | yes |
| Charles: | I hope these thoughts will penetrate more people |
| Joe: | we shall see |
| Mark: | yes, i hope so too, and i think they will, many already think like this to some extent, and my impression is that it becomes more and more ok to talk about it |
| Charles: | seen the rapid changes in the world now
there must be also rapid development |
| Joe: | yes, speed is high as never been |
| Mark: | internet can cause quick world wide changes |
| Charles: | change happens at the border between two opposing forces so strong materialistic trend must and will be countered by some spiritual "awareness" (that word again), and the internet is right on time for this indeed |
| Joe: | it very relates to social abilities and human mentalities |
| Charles: | ...and so in a few lines all the world problems are solved in this chatroom lol :) |
| Joe: | nah
:D |
| Mark: | :) |
| Charles: | just kidding
but it is a start |
| Joe: | but the beggining is here done, indeed :D |
| Joe: | yes |
| Charles: | ok, next subject will be.... the problems of ...mars ? |
| Charles: | lol |
| Joe: | venus |
| Charles: | ah yes |
| Joe: | its atmosphere is global problem |
| Charles: | yes global heating has been running away since ..beginning of solar system |
| Charles: | ok, tx again for sharing your thougts here |
| Joe: | you are welcome |